Date: 11/29/98
From: Charles J. Erion cjeann@jps.com
I was wondering about Sam Houston. What record is there of his visits to the Alamo before and after the battle of February - March 1836 and what sort of comments did he have about his visit(s)?
Charles J. Erion
Nevada City, Ca.
recensioni sugli alberghi Hvolsvolluralberghi a Berlino
Subject: Re: Alamo Lake
Date: 11/30/98
From: Thomas R. Kailbourn tkailbourn@infoblvd.net
As an addendum to Gary Zaboly's comments: An 1849 watercolor of therear of the Alamo church by Seth Eastman (collection of the Witte Museum)clearly shows an expanse of water very close to the east side of the structure.
To see the real Seth Eastman sketch , perhaps the most accessible publicationis the booklet, The Republic of Texas, edited by Stephen B. Oates (PaloAlto, California: American West, 1969; reprint of a special Texas Republicissue of American West magazine), p. 23. At the time of publication, theEastman watercolor was at the Witte Museum; I presume it still is.
I don't think the "Alamo lake" was anything more than occasional standingwater in a depression through which the Alamo acequia flowed. There areplenty of early accounts of standing water problems in Alamo Plaza duringthe rainy seasons.
Thomas R. Kailbourn
Wellsville, NY
San Antonio sits atop the Edwards Aquifer, a vast water-bearinglimestone deposit that once fed numerous natural springs in the area. Eventhe San Antonio River had its origins in nearby San Pedro Springs. We tendto think of the San Antonio River as being somewhat murky, but as earlynaturalists reported, the water was once so clear, that you could see allthe way to the bottom. On one occasion, it's said that a priest expressedconcern because local Indian girls insisted on going skinny-dipping inthe river. Apparently, the clarity of the water did little to conceal them.
With the growth of San Antonio and the surrounding area, the waterreserves were depleted to such an extent that the springs in the area havemostly dried up. As you pointed out, the area is also prone to flooding.In 1819, the river flooded and nearly decimated the villa including thearea surrounding the Valero Mission.
What's interesting though, is the area immediately in front of the Alamo Chapel. This is the location of the alleged "Alamo Well" [See: Green Jameson's Map]. It turns out not to have been a well at all. It was instead a natural depression that served as a landfill and was used from as early as the "mission" period indicating that the area may have been dry by then. Geological studies also concluded that there might have at one time been a natural spring immediately in front of the Alamo chapel. [This report is scheduled for publication here.] The limestone in this area is characteristic of the "water-bearing" type that is associated with a spring. In all probability, this natural depression was also another intermittent "lake".
Subject: Mexican's Assault
Date: 12/01/98
From: Simon Haines simon5890@aol.com
Did the Mexicans ever make a serious attempt at assaulting the Alamobefore the final assault, or was it just skirmish actions that occurredbeforehand and if so what size and where casualties taken by either side?And to whether Crockett surrendered or not, does it really matter? He hadalready proven himself by being in the Alamo.
Simon Haines
England
Subject: Francisco Becerra's Grave
Date: 12/01/98
From: Brian Huberman duke@rice.edu
[Editors Note: This was a personal response I receivedafter following up on Mr. Huberman's original query. I publish it herebecause I know it will be of interest to our readers and perhaps aid himin his search. R.T. ]
Thanks for the note regarding my search for Becerra's grave-site. Sofar I have received a little feedback. Roger Borroel has contacted theBrownsville Chamber of Commerce and some other sources about Confederatecemeteries and Gerron S. Hite, Cemetery Preservation Coordinator, HistoryPrograms Division, Texas Historical Commission wrote the following:
"If my memory is correct, the remains at theNational Military Cemetery in Brownsville were all moved to the NationalCemetery in San Antonio. I would assume the National Cemetery was a web-site."This is as far as I have been able to go. I have not yet located a websitefor the National Cemetery in San Antonio but have the feeling that Becerra'sremains are still on the border.
I did locate the grave of George M. Dolson, author of the famous"Dolson" letter containing an account of Crockett's death. He is buriedin section one of the Oakwood Cemetery in Austin. Visitors should turnright at the main gate and proceed along the fence-line for about 75/100yards. The grave stone is crumbling but Dolson's name is still visible.I'm glad I was able to film the marker because it won't last much longer.
So many of these markers are turning to dust. Last July I located & filmed the grave of Reuben M. Potter in the Evergreens Cemetery in Brooklyn, New York. Made of black slate the inscribed slab has almost been totally obliterated by time and the elements, (not to mention the actions of unruly neighbors who inhabit nearby crack-houses.)
Any help with finding the grave-sites of Becerra, Ramon Caro, Cos andof course, de la Peña would be much appreciated. Also, where inParis was Juan Almonte buried?
Thanks for the interest.
Sincerely,
Brian Huberman
Subject: Celestial Phenomena
Date: 12/01/98
From: W.L. McKeehan
Bexar resident Samuel Maverick, in his diaryfrom within Bexar during the first and most important Battle for theAlamo (Siege and Battle of Bexar) in late 1835, writes on 17 Oct:
"13th was the day on which the military broke the figurefive star hotel in Hamburgof San Antonio, and on the 14th the comet was seen in the west 45°above the horizon, its train reaching 1/4 over the visible firmament."What does "broke the figure of San Antonio" refer to? Which cometwas this as we know them today?
W.L. McKeehan
Houston, TX
"Break the figure" is an English idiom that, like so many have fallenfrom use. Another way Maverick might have said it was that the military"upset the apple cart" of the citizenry of San Antonio. The appearanceof the Texian army, comprised mostly of Anglos, decidedly disrupted therelative serenity of the mostly Tejano community.
Ralph Waldo Emerson used the term in his "Twelve Essential Essays"When he wrote:
"...like votaries performing some religious dance beforethe gods, and, though in convulsive pain or mortal combat, never daringto break the figure and decorum of their dance..."As for the comet...believe it or not, it was Halley's Comet. It couldbe seen clearly with the unaided eye from September 23, 1835 until February18th,1836. Halley's Comet appears an average of every 77 years with itsearliest recorded sighting being by Chinese astronomers in 230 B.C.
For centuries people believed that a comet came as a harbinger ofdisaster. This was certainly the case for those in Bejar in late 1835 andearly 1836. Or perhaps the comet's appearance signaled the impending defeatof Santa Anna's army.
HALLEY'S COMET
Subject: Re: CelestialPhenomena et al
Date: 12/02/98
From: Jake Ivey jake_ivey@nps.gov
In reference to W.L. McKeehan's question about breaking "the figureof San Antonio," I have always assumed that Maverick meant that Mexicansoldiers accidentally broke one of the stone santos placed in the two lowerniches of the facade of the church. These were described as San Franciscoand San Domingo in the 1772 and 1793 inventories, but it was common forthe santos to be identified incorrectly. I read the line as an indicationthat Maverick read the breaking of the "San Antonio" statue and the presenceof the comet as omens of the darkest days of the town.
I noticed while looking at your versions of my old articles about the cannon positions at the northwest and southwest corners that you changed my date of the arrival of the Flying Company at the Alamo to 1803. Then I found an exchange in the Forum back records about the arrival date. My apologies; I didn't realize that no one had seen the official letter acknowledging the Company's arrival.
The governor of Texas, Nemesio Salcedo, wrote to the Commandant Generalon January 5, 1803, reporting the arrival of the Flying Company on December29, 1802. He stated that he had assigned them to the mission of San Antoniode Valero because of the limited housing in the Villa de Bejar. He saidthat he considered the mission to be a good location for the Company, becauseof the numerous buildings there that they could use. The families of thecompany, he added, were living in the existing houses within the plazaof the mission, but there weren't enough of these and the soldiers werebuilding other, temporary houses. The document is in the Bexar ArchiveMicrofilms, roll 30, frames 947-49. It's hard to read, because this isa book of first drafts of correspondence, with a lot of corrections toget the wording right before the final copy was made. I recall that thereare two different versions of the letter in the frames I cited.
I have assumed that the new houses built by the company were probablyalong the northern section of the east wall of the plaza, with no particularevidence to support this ... well, on thinking about it there might besomething ... I'll look in the files.
While I'm on your site, I might as well ask you: in your history ofthe Flying Company (a good one, by the way) you mention that in 1809 "834varasofbattlement" were added to the existing walls, and that this work includedthe south gate structure. What's your source on that?
Jake Ivey
Santa Fe, NM
Go to lengthy interchange on this subject.
Date: 12/03/98
From: Ron D'Ambrosi Deguell0@aol.com
I know that Jim Bowie was killed in a room along the low barracks, but how did he die? Is the eyewitness account of Bowie dying underneath his covers accurate? Personally I feel that it is, because Bowie was reported to be only a short [time] away from death and he wouldn't had been aware of the final Mexican assault on March 6, 1836. Did Bowie manage to get off one pistol shot as Kevin Young suggested?
Ron D'Ambrosi
Brooklyn, New York
Subject: Death of Bowie
Date: 12/04/98
From: W.L. McKeehan
Great questions! Let's give equal coverage to the other two membersof the mythical Holy Trinity (Travis and Bowie) of the Second Battle forthe Alamo [see second question below]. "Spirit" Crockett is getting fartwo much attention. Equally controversial accounts exist for both "Son"Travis and "Father" Bowie, or should it be vice-versa, the death of bothare equally deserving of at least one book and historian career. Travishas gotten a little dues lately (War Room on Joe's Account of his Death),but Bowie is lagging.
ERROR MSGTo my knowledge, Bowie appears to have the same three general theoriesas the other two: 1. Taking out enemy until the last breath; 2. Suicide;3. Cowardly hiding and/or surrender; 4. Brutal execution/mutilation aftercapture. Bowie has some slack on the latter three since he was sick.
I may not have these all straight from memory, but seems I have heardthe following at one time or another:
1. Ruiz: dead in bed in a side room; 2. Sutherland: brains and bloodon the wall near his cot; 3. Servant and [Susanna] Dickinson: shot multipletimes through the head while lying prostrate on the cot; 4. Navarro orother women survivors: multiple bayonet mutilations while prostrate, carriedout on bayonet tips while alive; 5. Mexican officer?: died a coward hidingunder cot; 6. ???-shot himself, to sick to fight; 7. Zuber: brought toEl Presidente alive on cot, Bowie scolded the Dictator as a traitor toMexico in such Castillian eloquence, his tongue was cut out and he thrownon the funeral pyre alive.
Related to this month's War Room question, I am beginning to conclude that we do not know much more truth about detail of the Holy Trinity's last moments than the other Defenders for which there are fewer accounts. If only the walls could report. I am interested in anything on individuals of the Gonzales Alamo Relief Force and their last moments.
BTW, how many Battles for the Alamo have there been prior to March 1836?I consider the Battle for Bexar in late 1835 the most important one, butcan we consider the Las Casas and Gutierrez-Magee actions an earlier twoas well?
I don't think we can. The Las Casas incident wasn't really FOR theAlamo per se, it was more of a local power struggle between opposing politicalfactions. Besides, it was the officers of the Alamo Company who apprehendedGovernor Casas putting and end to the brief struggle. To my knowledge,there was no battle for the Alamo during the Gutierrez-Magee Action either.The military in Bejar gave up without much of a struggle before the enemyeven entered the Villa. They guessed (and wrongly so) that they were goingwith the winning side. The insurgents did take up residence in the Alamo,but I'm sure it was by invitation. At the time, 2nd Lt. Vicente Tarin wasthe commandant of the Alamo Company. He was on such friendly terms withthe insurgents that he joined them and was promoted to the rank of Captain.Others followed suit, while others simply desserted.
Let's not forget Adina de Zavala. Now that was a battle!
Randell Tarin
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THESECOND FLYINGCOMPANYOF ALAMO DEPARRAS
ERROR MSGGo ahead, pick a fight...
